seraph
Hexen
Vixen
Ritualistically sacrificed by a fallen angel
Posts: 384
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Post by seraph on Oct 5, 2005 14:50:52 GMT
Unless I misheard her (someone please correct me if I did), Ella said her father was John Dee. This isnt exactly mythology, as he actually did exist, but I figured it belonged more here than the main board, and its interesting nonetheless...
He was a noted astrologer, astronomer, mathematician, geographer and consultant to Queen Elizabeth I. He also spent a lot of his life studying Hermetic philosophy, divination and alchemy, and he saw these not as contradicting his more scientific pursuits but complementing them. He lived in the 1500-1600's.
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Boreleya
Hexen
Dead Peggy
Morally Dubious
Posts: 256
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Post by Boreleya on Oct 5, 2005 19:58:42 GMT
Certainly plausible as : HighlightElla was tried as a witch in 1666
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Post by matt on Oct 5, 2005 20:39:47 GMT
I thought that as well. I had to double take that.
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tituscrow
Senior Hexen
...as i fly
beware the dweller!!
Posts: 924
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Post by tituscrow on Oct 6, 2005 9:14:19 GMT
well at least you know the producers and writers are doing their homework
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seraph
Hexen
Vixen
Ritualistically sacrificed by a fallen angel
Posts: 384
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Post by seraph on Oct 9, 2005 18:45:49 GMT
Ah damn you spoiler people...everytime I see someone post a spoiler I think to myself *must not read, must NOT read* but of course I always do! ;D Still its just a wee one.
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Post by Chaosfeary on Oct 14, 2005 21:40:20 GMT
Dug up some more stuff on him. www.john-dee.org/ - The John Dee Publication Project, "The major purpose of this site is to distribute primary-source materials relevant to the "Enochian" work of John Dee and Edward Kelly, particularly reconstructions of Dee's Spirit Diaries, from the original manuscripts." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagickMagick is an alternate spelling of magic, coined by Aleister Crowley. This term is often spelled with a terminal "k" to differentiate it from other practices, such as "stage magic". Crowley got the inspiration for the spelling from its usage by the famous English magician John Dee. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeeIn 1564, Dee wrote the Hermetic work Monas Hieroglyphica ("The Hieroglyphic Monad"), an exhaustive Cabalistic interpretation of a glyph of his own design, meant to express the mystical unity of all creation. This work was highly valued by many of Dee's contemporaries, but the loss of the secret oral tradition of Dee's milieu makes the work difficult to interpret today. [...] By the early 1580s, Dee was growing dissatisfied with his progress in learning the secrets of nature and with his own lack of influence and recognition. He began to turn towards the supernatural as a means to acquire knowledge. Specifically, he sought to contact angels through the use of a "scryer" or crystal-gazer, who would act as an intermediary between Dee and the angels. Dee's first attempts were not satisfactory, but in 1582 he met Edward Kelley, who impressed him greatly with his abilities. Dee took Kelley into his service and began to devote all his energies to his supernatural pursuits. These "spiritual conferences" or "actions" were conducted with an air of intense Christian piety, always after periods of purification, prayer and fasting. Dee was convinced of the benefits they could bring to mankind. (The character of Kelley is harder to assess: some have concluded that he acted with complete cynicism, but delusion or self-deception are not out of the question. Kelley's "output" is remarkable for its sheer mass, its intricacy and its vividness.) Dee maintained that the angels laboriously dictated several books to him this way, some in a special angelic or Enochian language. In 1583, Dee met the visiting Polish nobleman Albert Łaski, who invited the Englishman to accompany him on his return to Poland. With some prompting by the angels, Dee was persuaded to go. Dee, Kelley and their families left for the Continent in September 1583, but Laski proved to be bankrupt and out of favor in his own country. Dee and Kelley began a nomadic life in Central Europe, but they continued their spiritual conferences, which Dee recorded meticulously. He had audiences with Emperor Rudolf II and King Stephen of Poland in which he chided them for their ungodliness and attempted to convince them of the importance of his angelic communications. He was not taken up by either monarch. During a spiritual conference in Bohemia in 1587, Kelley told Dee that the angel Uriel had ordered that the two men should share their wives. Kelley, who by that time was becoming a prominent alchemist and was much more sought-after than Dee, may have wished to use this as a way to end the spiritual conferences. The order caused Dee great anguish, but he did not doubt its genuineness and apparently allowed it to go forward, but broke off the conferences immediately afterwards and did not see Kelley again. Dee returned to England in 1589. [...] Dee spent his final years in poverty at Mortlake, where he died in late 1608 or early 1609. Unfortunately, both the parish registers and Dee's gravestone are missing. [...] His ultimate goal was to help bring forth a unified world religion through the healing of the breach of the Catholic and Protestant churches and the recapture of the pure theology of the ancients. [...] The British Museum holds several items once owned by Dee and associated with the spiritual conferences: - Dee's Speculum or Mirror (an obsidian Aztec cult object in the shape of a hand-mirror, brought to Europe in the late 1520s), which was once owned by Horace Walpole.
- The small wax seals used to support the legs of Dee's "table of practice" (the table at which the scrying was performed).
- The large, elaborately-decorated wax "Seal of God", used to support the "shew-stone", the crystal ball used for scrying.
- A gold amulet engraved with a representation of one of Kelley's visions.
- A crystal globe, six centimetres in diameter. This item remained unnoticed for many years in the mineral collection; possibly the one owned by Dee, but the provenance of this object is less certain than that of the others.
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Post by Chaosfeary on Oct 18, 2005 0:22:25 GMT
hmmm, I wonder if this is any relation to Ella's brand of pentacles.. (click to enlarge) From the www.john-dee.org/ site. Ella's father was an interesting man...
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Post by DreamDangerously on Oct 18, 2005 6:10:43 GMT
could you reduce the size of that image please? ....remember the dial up peeps.
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seraph
Hexen
Vixen
Ritualistically sacrificed by a fallen angel
Posts: 384
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Post by seraph on Oct 18, 2005 11:18:43 GMT
hmmm, I wonder if this is any relation to Ella's brand of pentacles.. *Puts on pedantic hat* the figure she drew was a Hexagram...a six point star. Pentacles and pentagrams are five point stars. LOL, sorry my friend is a practising Pagan and I've heard her lecture people about it a million times...CANT HELP IT!
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Post by Chaosfeary on Oct 18, 2005 13:14:50 GMT
heh whoops sorry I did post that at like, 2am or something insaneish late though >_< </lame excuses>
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Post by DreamDangerously on Oct 18, 2005 16:12:21 GMT
thanks for shrinking the image.
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Boreleya
Hexen
Dead Peggy
Morally Dubious
Posts: 256
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Post by Boreleya on Oct 25, 2005 21:47:12 GMT
Ok slight development with Dee, who I have been making a sort of personal crusade of, I don't think the writers are making a lot of this stuff up, just giving it new names and placing ideas in the hands of different people, for example the "Language of Angels" was, by the looks of things, a John Dee thing. John Dee was aprt of a magical secret order type thing: "The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was the most influential occult group to emerge from the end of the nineteenth century occult revival. The main achievement of the group, and of its more influential individuals, was to create a working system of magic, bonded from the various separate strands of tradition in existence at the time.""Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn" actually sounds like some kind of bizarre church revival, but if you should replace that with "The Order of Ora(however it finishes)" then it sounds a lot cooler. As for the language of angels: "Dee started using the mysterious Enochian script to communicate with the Angels. Called the language of angels it is definitely a structured language, although its real origins are obscure. Whatever its origins people who have worked with Enochain magic have claimed that it does seem to work."The language of angels. Well that certainly sounds awfully familiar... " In November 1582 they encountered an Angel, Uriel." Uriel also going by the name of Remiel, also going by the name of "Just Call Me" Jez. ;D Cannot be a coincidence. It was Uriel who: "The Angel gave instructions for a magical talisman with which they could contact the spirit world more easily." Ring any bells? Magical talismans in the hands of angels? Either someone on the production team has really done their serearch or this is a conspiracy of biblical (hehe) proportions. Resources: www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/occult/golden_dawn.htmlwww.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/occult/john_dee.html
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seraph
Hexen
Vixen
Ritualistically sacrificed by a fallen angel
Posts: 384
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Post by seraph on Oct 26, 2005 14:23:30 GMT
Yup I've read a few books on the Golden Dawn, its quite fascinating stuff really. Everyone is outdoing me on this info thing, lol, I was just typing what I knew about him. Need to be more verbose next time ;D!
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tituscrow
Senior Hexen
...as i fly
beware the dweller!!
Posts: 924
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Post by tituscrow on Oct 28, 2005 11:15:06 GMT
lol i learnt that on another board which is why if i know little about a subject i just chip in with what i know
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Feena
Newbie Hexen
Has a purple aura
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Post by Feena on Nov 22, 2005 21:45:26 GMT
I wonder why they picked 'Ella' as his daughter's name? This may have been discussed elsewhere, I'm still wandering about the Forums
I tried out to find out what his children were called. He'd been married 3 times and had 8 children with his 3rd wife.
When the aged mathematician died at Mortlake in 1608 he left to survive him five or six out of his eight children. Michael, born at Prague, had died on his father's birthday in 1594. Theodore, born at Trebona, died at Manchester 1601.
Arthur and Rowland were left [...] The three younger girls, Madinia, Frances and Margaret, had, for anything we know, survived the plague which was so fatal to their mother, but there is no trace of either of them after that event in March, 1606.
Aubrey , indeed, did hear from Goody Faldo of a daughter, whose name he thinks was Sarah, married to a flax dresser of Bermondsey. Dee had no daughter Sarah, and Aubrey does not suggest a name for the problematic husband.
So no mention of an 'Ella', but... there's one child missing. Interestingly, Arthur (the eldest son) was married to Isabella Prestwich, maybe they picked 'Ella' from there? Or it could just be a big coincidence www.johndee.org/charlotte/Appendix1/ap1.html
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