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Post by Kneetroll on May 14, 2006 9:18:54 GMT
I never thought I'd say this, especially considering how much I loved series 1, but... Doctor Who sucks! What the smeg's happened to it!?
Here's my problems:
1) The supporting actors, although brilliant in other projects, seem to be... kinda Bond-Villany and really really cheesy/lame. The writing has REALLY gone downhill...
2) Rose's personality seems to have completley changed.
3) The friendship between the Doctor and Rose is faaaar too... twee. It's too cute!
4) The storylines in the show don't seem to hold any water. It could just be me, but they seem like been-there-done-that storylines that have been re-hashed for this show.
Anyone else agree? I'm finding myself watching for morbid curiosity to see if it's any worse each week, rather than feeling like I have to watch it cos I can't bear to miss it!
If this gets a series 3 I'll be very, very surprised.
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Post by matt on May 14, 2006 9:39:13 GMT
It already has.
And I think Dr Who's been really good; Tennant is a much better Doctor that's closer to his predecessors, Rose has developed since then - and Mickey is now my favourite character.
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Post by Kneetroll on May 14, 2006 9:55:22 GMT
Crikey.
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Post by matt on May 14, 2006 10:04:09 GMT
It was announced after season one was done.
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Post by Fassbender Fan on May 14, 2006 12:42:29 GMT
It already has. And I think Dr Who's been really good; Tennant is a much better Doctor that's closer to his predecessors, Rose has developed since then - and Mickey is now my favourite character. I agree with Matt. I wasn't too happy about Ecclescakes being replaced but I have to say Tennant is fantastic, he's got more of the wit of the previous doctors, plus his outfit of course and I think he's brought a character to the show that Christopher Eccleston didn't. Rose annoys me at times and her relationship with the doctor is a bit too in your face yet hidden at times if you know what I mean. Like there's some forbidden love doomed to lie beneath the surface or something. Although I think she's still the same Rose, bound to get them in trouble, jealous of anyone else in the Doctor's life and still stringing poor Mickey along. I think Mickey's come a long way since series one too, I wasn't too bothered about him then but his comedic talents are really coming to light this series and now he's joined them on the tardis I can't wait to see more. Plus I think a lot of people will appreciate him more after seeing Episode Six. Plus he's the tin dog he he I think the revival of the Cybermen and brining back Sarah Jane and K9 were great, not to mention the episode written by Steven Moffat (Girl In The Fireplace) which was a great alternative to the normal running themes. I have to say I'm loving Doctor Who at the moment ;D
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Post by Kneetroll on May 14, 2006 20:45:56 GMT
I totally understand why people would watch it and be entertained - Tenant is an excellent doctor, he really seems to fit the role, even better than Eccelston - he was never my problem! It was just the storylines in comparison to series 1.
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Post by fenris on May 14, 2006 23:23:36 GMT
My views regarding this new version of Who are mixed. I enjoyed most of last year's series, and so far I've been liking this year's episodes (loved the one with Sarah-Jane). I prefer Tennant as the Doctor, but I still don't like the character of Rose. I just find her annoying - I did last year as well.
But now the show seems to have made it's first serious mis-step. I thought yesterday's episode Rise of the Cybermen was pants.
My heart sank at the end of the pre-title sequence, with villain John Lumic (played by a woefully bad Roger Lloyd-Pack) announcing to a doomed underling "How are you going to tell anyone...from beyond the grave?" Oh dear. Real people just don't talk like that, even if they are incredibly rich meglomaniacs.
The whole 'alternative Earth' storyline was just lame as well. Characters meeting different versions of loved ones, dead relatives, and themselves - it was totally unoriginal. It's been done in other TV shows, movies, books and comics so many times before.
Perhaps this episode just isn't intended for me, or anyone who watched the earlier version of Who. Maybe the BBC are concentrating on the new fanbase, the kids who weren't even born when the McCoy era ended, and to whom alternative Earths and Cybermen are unfamilar and exciting concepts. That's fair enough - one of the reasons this new Who has proved to so popular is it's ability to attract and keep new viewers. Until now though, the writers have managed to ensure that old-time fans were also catered for. Perhaps it was felt with the Cybermen that this dual-handed approach just wasn't possible. So they're given a new origin that basically ignores their back history and starts them afresh, the 'alternative Earth' setting being the get-out clause to pacify long-time fans - namely, that these aren't the previous Cybermen, but an entirely new, separate race.
Even putting all that aside, I still thought this episode was seriously underpar. For example, Lumic's reasoning makes no sense. He keeps going on about how he's dying, and that the UK government are refusing to allow him to officially make use of Cyber technology to save his own life. But if he's willing to illegally create an army of Cybermen, what's stopping him from using the conversion process on himself? Logically it would be the first thing he'd do after successfully completing the Cybermen prototype glimpsed at the beginning of the episode. We'll see what happens next week, but at the moment it seems that the scriptwriter's excuse for Lumic's scheme is that 'he's the villain - trying to take over the country/world is what villains do'.
Can't help but think that the cliffhanger will be resolved with the Doctor suddenly yelling "Go to your room" and all the Cybermen turning round and clanking off. Hey, it worked last time...
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Post by DreamDangerously on May 15, 2006 20:36:32 GMT
I agree with Fenris, there have been some excellent episodes and Stephen Moffat's writing on this and last season are easily the highlights for me.
I think that we're starting to get to the point with Rose now that she's becoming tired as a character, we pretty much saw her run the gamut of emotions last year and now there doesn't seem to be much left apart from pouting after the doctor and that annoyingly cutesy poo laughing together thing. (I agree Kneetroll, it is twee!). So maybe it's that we're in need of a new companion at the end of this series.
I have admit I'm bored of Tyler family-centric episodes now.
I'm liking Mickey though...which I didn't last series.
Oh and yes more naff Torchwood namechecking. That's getting teeth gratingly irritating now.
As for the cybermen episode iteslf. It looked fantastic but I don't like the re-invention of their origin although I can understand why it was done and I agree that Roger Lloyd Pack was flipping awful.
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Post by matt on May 15, 2006 22:15:38 GMT
I'm holding out for a reason for Llyod-Pack's performance...as no way can an actor like him do that. It was the only thing that
Although his performance was choppy in Goblet of Fire - but always thought that was the eccentrisity of Crouch and his slight nervousness and lack of social skills to meet Harry Potter were spot on.
I'm not tired of Tyler family stuff (yet); as I'm sure that there is a lot of more stuff to explore with Rose and to develop her (despite a slight rehash of stuff from Fathers Day)...but one thing that's slightly making me iffy is the fact that I'd love to see the Doctor as a character take more of a role. While we get more of Mickey - and The Doctor actually saves the day more times this series than he did last season - there's a complex character who's only really had one full episode to himself as a character piece - which was last week's Sofia Myles ep. Call me selfish but 100% doctor character episode is what I'm looking for...hopefully he takes centre stage next week. Although if they do good stuff with Ricky...I mean Mickey - it'll still be good.
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Post by Kneetroll on May 16, 2006 5:03:26 GMT
Oh and yes more naff Torchwood namechecking. That's getting teeth gratingly irritating now. Agreed. It seems to me that rather than have it like they did Bad Wolf, they're advertising for when the show airs...
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Post by DreamDangerously on May 20, 2006 23:05:58 GMT
Well that episode was much improved. The cybermen were just fab and the Doctor was more in his stride this episode....and go Mickey...although it was totally predictable, he's the man!
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Post by matt on May 21, 2006 8:17:18 GMT
I can't believe they wrote him out....
But maximum points on Pete's reaction to Rose.
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Post by Kneetroll on May 21, 2006 8:38:00 GMT
They wrote Mickey outta the show? How did they do that, then?
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Post by matt on May 21, 2006 8:44:19 GMT
He stayed in the parallel dimension to fight against all the Cybermen manufacturing plants.
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Post by fenris on May 21, 2006 12:17:20 GMT
The Age of Steel was an improvement over last week's Rise of the Cybermen, but that was mostly because Rise was the set up, and Age the all action pay-off that moved so quickly it didn't give you much time to think.
There were still flaws however. No explanation was given for why John ("I'm evil, me") Lumic wanted to take over the world, other than he's the villain, and well... that's what villains do I suppose. Also, can anyone tell me precisely why the Battersea complex started to explode at the end?
On the plus side, there was the unsubtle but surprisingly effective moment when a dying cyberman was revealed to contain the brain of a nervous bride-to-be, on what would have been the eve of her wedding. Also, the Rocketeer-style climax was well handled, ensuring that we won't see Lumic again, unless of course he returns "from beyond the grave!!!" (sorry, couldn't resist) And there were no Torchwood references!
The writing out of Micky the Idiot also worked, with the comic relief character getting serious, saving the day, and feeling honour-bound to take his deceased counterpart Ricky's place and take the fight to Lumic's other cyber production plants.
Although I don't think that Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel can be regarded as new Who's finest hour, I wouldn't mind seeing a spin-off mini-series (perhaps called Gemini, after Pete Tyler's resistance codename, and to empathise that it takes place on a duplicate Earth) with Micky, Jake, and Pete Tyler preventing another Cyberman outbreak.
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